My friend Rod Janz and I went for a walk on the Okanagan Rail Trail in Vernon. Here is some of our conversation. (The title photo is of Fred and me in Banff National Park.)

By the way, you can find the blog post about belonging that I was referring to in our conversation here. You can find a Living from the Heart podcast (in which Rod interviewed Brent Unrau and me talking about belonging) here.

One more detail. The snake in the photo looked way bigger than it actually was. (Otherwise you would have seen a way bigger reaction!)